Father, Forgive Them
Luke 23:34 ~ “Jesus said, ‘Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing.’”
I just have a lot of questions about this verse. I invite you into the questions, and I hope you might have some answers or more questions to add in the comments below:
Who is them? Was he just referring to the two criminals who were being crucified on either side of him? Is them the Jewish leaders who orchestrated Jesus’ crucifixion? Does it include the Romans that took part in his death or who looked the other way? Is them we who live today and horribly miss the mark? Does them cover every human that ever existed or will exist, who took a virtual part in his crucifixion?
Jesus and God are one, right? So, when he asks for them to be forgiven, is he already answering his own request? Can Jesus request this for them and not have it granted? So, why does he even ask, and why is he talking to his father who is him?
So, in asking His Father to forgive them, are they forgiven? I’m dying to know…did he actually forgive them?
What did he forgive them for? If he actually forgave them, does this mean that he forgave them for just this one thing – his crucifixion? Does it mean that he forgave them for anything that they did up to that point? Does is mean that he is asking them to be forgiven, in general, for generally not knowing what they are doing? Does it mean that he forgave them for everything?
How potent is this forgiveness of them? Does it have a statute of limitations that expires after a certain time in life or point in history? Is it confined to a certain people who have done or said or believed a certain thing? Does it cover a certain degree of bigness or hiddenness of sin?
What is it that they didn’t know they did? Did they think that he wouldn’t really die and he’s forgiving them for their ignorance? Did they not realize that he was really Messiah, so he was letting them off the hook? Did he forgive them because they got caught up in the moment and messed up? Did he forgive them for just generally not getting it?
And what did they do that he was forgiving them for? Is it that they crucified him? Is it that they didn’t protect him? Is it that they didn’t understand him? Is it that they mess up…a lot…when it comes to him?
What does this mean for us? Are we them? If so, are we forgiven? Does that just extend to those of us who believe that we are forgiven by what he said? Does we include those who still don’t know what they are doing?
Lord, will you please help us know the extent, the scope, the length, the breadth, the inclusiveness, and the power of your forgiveness so that it can be the reality we live from?
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I would cast my lot that they are the Jewish rulers that had sent Him to the cross. What I find interesting in pondering this is whether He was pleading for their forgiveness because they had the law, had the knowledge. The irony I find here is that those who “should have” know what was going on were those that didn’t know “what they are doing”. I would like to think that Jesus is using a pun here, but it may just be me that uses puns when things get frantic.
As for what this means for us: we have a huge responsibility as those who know the larger picture. But if the scope of the forgiveness granted by Jesus here is as I understand it, could it be that this is the moment, the phrase that charts the course to the forgiveness of true believers?
You’ve asked a lot of questions, and I have no answers. But there’s something about this passage that hits me deep in the gut… that even though God’s chosen people (whether you think of that as only those who were present at the time of the crucifixion or us today who turn from God in ways that are less obvious but just as significant) rejected him in the most painful of ways, he forgave them. And that makes me realize that if God did this for me, then I have no right to hold a grudge against anyone — the teenage driver who cut me off in traffic this morning, the woman at church who chose to believe and maybe even further a rumor about me, the friend who didn’t include me in the invitation, the family member who said hurtful words. They all need forgiveness, just as I need forgiveness from them for things in kind. We’re called to forgive each other to the extent, scope, length, breadth, inclusiveness, and power with which God forgives us… whatever that is.
Forgiveness has probably been one of my biggest frustrations over the years. I have cut things out of magazines about it, copied things off the internet & daily devotionals, went to counseling for it, etc., etc. It seems to almost haunt me at times. One thing I’ve learned is that we need to forgive others, but do not have to condone the actions by putting up with it or letting them continuously “get away with it”. There is freedom in forgiveness, but sometimes relationships will not ever be the same. Romans 8:28, “all things work together for good for those who love God and who are called according to His purpose”. Forgiveness should be unconditional, too………..we cannot say “I’ll forgive you, IF………..”. There is a good article by Jon Walker (author of Purpose Driven Life Daily Devotionals) titled “Should we forgive Michael Vick?”. You can download it from http://www.GraceCreates.com
Likewise, should we forgive Saddam Hussein? Or how about Hitler? Very interesting discussion topic!!
I think we have to include ourselves as a part of ‘them.’ I don’t think any of us would disagree that in a metaphorical sense we are part of the crowd that was crying “Crucify Him!” I want to really like Steve’s comment about the Jewish leaders, but something is holding me back. The crowd is just as involved in procuring Pilate that Jesus was the one to be crucified as the keepers of the law “who should have known what they were doing.” And perhaps, the crowd was even more involved than the leaders with the constant chanting “Crucify Him” (as the text suggests) We cannot cast blame of our sin to leadership saying “but it is he who told me to do thus.” We are accountable for our own actions.
I wonder, with you and with a different twist, for what Christ is asking the Father to forgive? “They” killed Christ, yes. “They” lead a crowd to believing that Christ deserved death, yes. But weren’t “they” ultimately carrying out God’s Will? Weren’t “they” ultimately glorifying the Father by doing what needed to be done so His People could be restored to right relationship? Would they have sinned instead if Christ was not crucified?
So, maybe, just maybe in that one enormous, elephantine, gigantic, monumental, economy-sized, vast YET small, simple, deemphasized, modest, humble statement Christ was taking on all the sin of Man. Sin from past, present and future. We do sin against the Father so many times without knowing what we’re doing.
Lastly, for now: What it means for us? We are to forgive each other, even when the other does not know what he/she is doing. To me, forgiveness has fully taken place when the relationship is restored. I’m not saying it won’t be the hardest thing we will ever do. Nor am I saying that actions, beliefs and thoughts do not need to change for the sinner. I am not saying it does not take time, and lots of it, for us as humans to realize forgiveness. But I am not ready to believe that forgiveness has taken place if the ‘forgiver’ in a sense says, “I can’t do ‘x’ again because ‘y’ happened.” After all, God forgave us for our vertical relationship to be restored yes? So, why wouldn’t it be true for our horizontal relationships?